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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  August 12, 2014 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT

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how others in his camp react to it. he already -- when these criticisms were voiced by republican senators the day after tonight, we are "all in." a no-fly zone over ferguson, missouri, a day after the media reportedly ordered by police to leave the scene of protest. >> i need justice for my son. >> a community wants answers. including the name of the officer at the center of it all. plus, death on the racetrack. >> tony stewart just hit that guy. >> what's next for one of nascar's biggest stars after he struck and killed a fellow driver.
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and the world mourns the loss of a brilliant mind. >> he was such a generous soul. >> tonight, we remember actor robin williams. >> boys, you must strive to find your own voice. >> "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. three days after the police shooting death of an unarmed teenager, michael brown, this image is front and center and one of many we're seeing out of ferguson, missouri, of the continuing and escalating tension between community members and local police in the wake of death of 18-year-old michael brown at the hands of local police. last night, after we were off air, protesters took to the streets once again in a largely nonviolent show of their frustration and desire for answers. "st. louis post dispatch" posted this video showing police using tear gas. >> this is the st. louis police department. please return to your home.
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>> no justice, no peace! no justice, no peace! no justice, no peace! >> you go home. >> we live here! >> police said shots were fired at a police vehicle as it circled a walmart parking lot and that numerous police cars sustained damage. at times scenes appeared to descend into chaos. [ boom ] >> the "river front times" posted this video of what appears people protesting from their own yards, standing behind fence as police instructed them to go to their homes when tear gas is fired. >> this is my property. this is my property. [ bleep ]. >> that scene was explained by multiple written reports including this one from the "huffington post." "richie west and a handful of friends and family members were watching from his backyard.
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they decided to protest, still on his property, shouting with hands in the air, you go home, you two home. west continued to shout, this is my backyard, and police fired again." police presence was felt by reporters as well. wesley lowery of the "washington post" tweeting after midnight, "eventually officers charged again. threatening if we didn't move, your last warning, you're putting your lives at risk. "the relationship between the police of ferguson, residents of ferguson seems to be getting worse by the today. today there was yet another protest outside of the office of st. louis county prosecuting attorney bob mcculloch, this one appeared to go forward without incident. meanwhile, today, police of ferguson, missouri, said they are delaying the release of the name of the police officer who shot and killed michael brown out of concerns for the officer's safety. also today the faa issued a temporary no-fly zone extending
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to 3,000 feet over the st. louis area. an officer saying it was requested because on sunday night, a police helicopter came under fire, of course, the no-fly zone also means news helicopters cannot hover overhead. finally, the man who says he was the key witness in the case, the person who says he was walking with michael brown when this altercation arose, dorian johnson, as of last night when we interviewed him on this show, two days after the shooting said he had not yet been contacted by the police. did michael reach and struggle for the officer's gun as the police are saying he did? >> that's incorrect, sir. he did not reach for a weapon at all. he did not reach for the officer's weapon at all. >> you were able to see this interaction? >> yes, sir, correct. >> mr. bosley, have you or your client, have you been approached by investigators? it seems like this is very key eyewitness testimony. >> well, what is interesting about this is that we have not, as a matter of fact, the naacp, through the court, contacted the
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authorities and the police department yesterday to make us available and make mr. johnson available and at that point, they said they had some other things going on, they did not want to interview mr. johnson at that time. and also wanted to indicate that mr. johnson ran away and was not really a person that witnessed everything that was going on and, of course, you know we know that is not correct. >> we spoke with johnson's attorney just a few minutes ago. he said today both the fbi and the local authorities have been in touch to schedule interviews with his client, johnson. last night's protests and the police response was covered and captured not only by print media, but also by citizens. st. louis alderman, antonio french. this video another instance in which police presence can appear to be overwhelming. there are reports circulating online right now that riot police are moving in on protesters at the local quick trip. an hour ago i spoke with alderman french who's been
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documenting the protests. he was standing in front of that quick trip. i asked him what he saw last night and how his judgment was to how the police reacted to last night's events. >> listen, i think since this thing first happened, as soon as the -- even while the body was still on the ground, i think the police at times have taken a heavy-handed approach and at times that has made things worse, i think. last night we had a large group of people here at the qt again which has become a rallying point. they were peacefully protesting. as it got larger, there were some guys that made their way out on to the street. a few of them jumped on cars and that's when the police came in. and they came in very heavy. they had assault weapons, gas masks, big vehicles, assault vehicles. and it wasn't soon before they used tear gas. the crowds quickly dispersed, but those guys that remained, some of them did get hit with these pellets and suffered from some of the tear gas. i was out here with them.
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i had some of the tear gas in my eyes as well. >> we've gotten troubling reports i have to say as a reporter of ferguson police attempting, it seems, to keep reporters away from the area. that happened last night. did they explicitly order the press to leave as far as you could hear? >> yes. so, after they cleared the area of most people, a lot of the residents who still live in the area that was closed off were still in here. and media was on the outside. television stations, reporters, photojournalists. they were asked to leave. at least one photojournalist tweeted he was threatened with arrest if he didn't leave. i even understand tonight that police have told reporters to leave at a certain time, and so we've had at least two or three incidents where people's constitutional rights are clearly being violated. people peacefully demonstrating across the street from the city hall were asked to leave. almost a dozen were arrested. then they did not leave.
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telling reporters to leave the scene last night and again today. >> what is your feeling right now about the ferguson police specifically, and st. louis county police, who i understand are also involved in the response to this? i mean, do you think the statements they're making are credible? are they doing a good job of communicating with folks in the community? >> i don't think they're doing a good job of communicating. i think at times they should have been commended for staying away. they did keep their distance sometimes, but other times they were very heavy handed and i think made the situation worse. as far as the investigation into what this is all about, which is the killing of young mike brown, there's no trust between the ferguson police department and the community at this point. and there's not much trust with st. louis county police department and the community at this point.
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it's only going to take an independent federal investigation to get these people what they want which is justice for this young man that was murdered. >> has the governing class of ferguson, talking about -- and i understand you're an alderman in st. louis, itself. is the governing class of ferguson come out to address this? it seems to me the mayor, for instance, has been notably absent amidst all this unrest? >> well, i think one of the reasons that you have this unrest is because there's such a disconnect between the government of ferguson and the people who live here. so the people who live here are 2/3 african-american. the government of ferguson is almost all white and have been unable to communicate, or it seems empathize with the community in this time of crisis. and that has created a really contentious environment. at times i think it should have been a soft hand, one of compassion, reaching out to these young people who are rightfully angry and frustrated and instead they got a very heavy-handed response which, again, i think made it worse. >> where does in go from here? we've seen successive nights of
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protest, heavy police response. the police have said their helicopters have been shot at last night. that's been and able to independently confirm. where do you see this going? >> i hope things get better. a lot of us have been talking to younger people and encouraging more older leaders to come and talk directly with the young people. i think that will help. frankly, the healing hasn't begun yet. we're still in the crisis. and what has to happen, what is necessary to get beyond this, these conversations, have not even started. and so we're still in the middle of it. it's not going to be solved overnight. it didn't happen overnight. but we really need to get to the business of healing our community. >> st. louis alderman antoine you french, great, thanks. >> thank you. >> as alderman french just noted, underlying this incident is the relationship between community and local police. according to the "los angeles times" african-american make up 65% of ferguson's police
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department. ferguson police department has 53 total commissioned officers, 3 of whom are black and 2 of whom are other people of color. the rest are white. both the police chief and mayor of ferguson are white. out of the six city council members, one is black. how did we get here? joining me now, missouri democratic state senator, jamilah nasheed. senator, what is the nature of the disconnect between the people elected to represent and govern ferguson, folks who live in ferguson, at the heart of the anger we're seeing in the wake of this incident? >> what you're seeing is the unrest of a community who has been denied and oppressed economically as well as politically and they're frustrated. you have 20% of the population in ferguson, 20% of those young men are unemployed. they cannot find jobs. they're being excluded from jobs. especially in the construction industry. what you're seeing is frustration and the frustration
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is a direct correlation to the economic and political oppression. >> you know, i've been doing some reading about northern county which is this part of st. louis county, and it seems that there's been a real transformation of parts of the sort of suburbs around st. louis that were once primarily white have become much more black and brown over time and yet have kind of maintained the same folks running the political machinery of those areas? >> and that's correct. however, the major issue that we're dealing with right now, people cannot begin to understand what's happening around the st. louis area. the young man that was murdered, they are frustrated about that because they are asking how can a young man who only crime was walking down the street wanting to go visit his mother who was gunned down simply because he was an african-american man? they want to know those answers and those answers they don't have yet. >> and that's why you see the
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unrest in the community. >> now, there was a decision that was announced today by the ferguson, i believe it was the ferguson police department, they will not release the name of the officer involved. the reason they gave, there's a barrage of threats on social media, they're getting undated with phone calls and there's a fear for the officer which seems like an understandable worry. at the same time, there's a fairly compelling public right to know the name of an officer who committed this act, it appears while on public duty. what is your reaction to the police department's announcement today? >> i'm appalled. the people should have a right to know. you have -- it's unjustifiable. how can you justify killing and shooting down a man in the middle of the street,
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execution-style, again simply because his only crime was walking in the middle of the street wanting to visit his grandmother. he wasn't considered a statistic. he didn't have any felony charges. he didn't have any gang activity. he one involved in any gang activities. he didn't do any of those things. he wasn't a drug dealer. he was an upright young man who did exactly what his mother told him to do. go to school, get a good education, and become a productive citizen. >> senator, can i -- can i ask you if you've had interactions with any of the political officials? obviously you're a member of the missouri state senate. have you had interactions? is anyone talking to or has
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there been any kind of communication between elected officials, the mayor, city council of ferguson, as far as i can tell have been remarkably absent from the aftermath of this entire thing? >> that's unfortunate. antonio french, alderman antonio french, he's been there, i mean, he's on the ground. you also have the senator nadal, she's on the ground. so you do have elected firms that are engaged as well as involved. what we need more than anything, we need a fair and transparent investigation. we need an independent investigation from the department of justice. >> yes. >> because many of the people in the community, they don't trust the county prosecutor. they know that in the past, he sided with the police department. >> state senator jamilah nashedd. thank you for joining me tonight. i appreciate it. >> thank you. what this image, the one you're seeing there, what that has to do with what we're seeing in ferguson, missouri. i'll explain ahead.
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this is what the amazon bestseller's page for dvds looked like today. "mrs. doubtfire," "dead poets society," "good morning, vietnam," "patch adams," "the birdcage." 17 of the top 20 bestselling dvds star robin williams and 16 are out of stock. i'll talk to someone who wrote one of those films, ahead. this allergy season, will you be a sound sleeper, or... a mouth breather? well, put on a breathe right strip and instantly open your nose up to 38% more than allergy medicines alone. so you can breathe and sleep. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right. [guyi know what you're excited. you're thinking beneful. [announcer]and why wouldn't he be? beneful has wholesome grains,real beef,even accents of spinach,carrots and peas. it has carbohydrates for energy and protein for those serious muscles. [guy] aarrrrr! [announcer]even accents of vitamin-rich veggies. [guy] so happy! you love it so much. yes you do! but it's good for you,too.
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the examination reveal supporting physical signs his life ended due to asphyxia due to hanging. >> expressions of grief and sadness continue to pour in today over the death of robin williams who had the occasion to work with and come to know so many during a career that spanned nearly four decades in the spotlight. this from nathan lane. "what i will always remember about robin, perhaps more than his comic genius, extraordinary talent, astounding intellect, was his huge heart, his tremendous kindness, generosity and a fellow traveler in a difficult world." from his daughter, zelda, in his last picture he posted on instagram, "i love you, i miss you, i'll try to keep looking up." on "mork & mindy" that launched robin williams into stardom, williams addressed what it meant to be famous. it was, he said, perhaps the last thing some of us might want.
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>> see, being a star, sir, is a 24-hour job and you can't leave your face at the office. >> isn't fame its own reward? >> yes, sir, it is, but when you're celebrity, everybody wants a piece of you, sir. unless you can say no, there will be no pieces left for yourself. >> i thought all stars were rich, live in mansions and drive big eggs. >> i know, sir, that's the common misconception. to get that, you have to pay a very heavy price. you have responsibilities, anxieties, and to be honest, sir, some can't take it. >> i'm not buying it, mork. >> why, sir? >> sounds to me like they have it made. >> most of them do, sir. some are victims of their own fame. very special, intelligent people. people who like elvis presley, marilyn monroe, janis joplin, jimi henrix, freddy prinze, john lennon. >> joining me, randi mayem singer, she worked with him in "mrs. doubtfire." she was the screenwriter for the movie.
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would that movie have worked without robin williams? >> i can't imagine it with anybody else. if there had been a real mrs. doubtfire, she would have paled in comparison to what robin did. >> how much of what he brought to that performance, how much of that was improvised, how much of it was scripted and what was it like to watch him work? >> it was amazing. first of all, anything with robin williams involves improvisation. he sort of would begin with the script and then begin take after take to salt and pepper it with robin-isms and try different things and toss out one thing and bring in another. as the takes circled back to sort of the end of the take run, it would kind of return to the script and with the best of what he had been experimenting with. it was almost as he was keeping track of it as it was going. or chris columbus was reminding
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him, try it with that one thing. you know, it was amazing to watch him work i think like no other actor. >> there's been a lot of remembrances of him over the last 24 hours i've been reading, and they note two things. one, the kind of amazing sort of manic fireworks of his comedic brain and things that were associated with it, and also his quiet gentleness and his sadness, actually, i've said on a number of accounts. did you get that off him? when you worked with him, what kind of presence was he like to work with? >> he was, to this day, one of the nicest actors that i've ever worked with. and he would -- there was a present normal, if you will, side of him, discussing a scene or discussing a line of dialogue or what he wanted from the script. but in the middle of that, he would get up out of his chair, use the whole room, go into character, take over a restaurant, work his way through it, sit back down and, you know, turn into a regular person
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again. there was definitely a sweet, sensitive, wonderful man in there, but there was also this incredible comedic, you know, place that he went and it was both. i remember thinking, it's a good thing he became robin williams because i couldn't picture him in a desk job. >> the reason i wanted to play that monologue from "mork & mindy" which i found really poignant is there's this cliche at the center of this whole thing that i think has been in everyone's head about the sort of sad clown or about the comedian who's struggling with depression and about -- and about the kind of fleetingness of fame and stardom and how different the lived interior life of a star is from what is seen from the outside. >> right. >> there's this moment in the marc maron podcast where he talks about fame and insecurity. take a listen for the second. >> the insecure part -- >> no, no. >> what are you afraid will happen? >> i guess it's that fear of
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you'll recognize that there, you know, as you know, how insecure are we really? >> yeah. >> how desperately insecure -- made us to this for a living. >> it strikes me this is someone who is struggling both with real depression, as an illness but also in the world that feeds the worst part of those. any time i go to l.a. and i'm around people who are in show business, it seems like a machine that's been crafted to stoke the worst kinds of insecurity in people. >> you know, you -- yes, i don't know how to respond to that. you see -- i see that in a lot of people that i work with. it seems sometimes that the most brilliant artists among us are the ones who have demons. i can't really say that i saw those in the brief time that i worked with him, but i do remember there was one moment at the afterparty of the premiere party and it was at a restaurant, and we were looking around, my husband and myself,
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where's robin? and he was outside where the festivities were taking place just looking over a ledge at a fountain by himself. so we went out there and we talked to him and had the best conversation about parenthood and raising kids and marriage and it was just a regular conversation with a guy at a party, but it was striking to me that he was out there and not inside with all of the festivities going on. >> screenwriter randi mayem singer. thank you for joining me tonight. >> thank you. the aftermath, investigation into one of the most horrific things to happen at a sports event ever, that's coming up. ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪
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you might think this summer of global turmoil has entered a relative low, as the latest cease-fire in gaza continues to hold for a second day and u.s. air strikes in iraq may have possibly turned the momentum against isis. cast your attention to this image. what you're looking at is a convoy of trucks, 280 to be precise, that departed the moscow area earlier this evening en route to the ukrainian border where they intend to cross over into ukraine. these trucks are part of what the russian government is calling a humanitarian mission to deliver 2,000 tons of aid including food, medical equipment, and generators to civilians in rebel-held areas of eastern ukraine which have seen fierce fighting between pro-russian separatists and ukrainian military, fighting
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that's intensified over the last several weeks. while some fear the aid convoy may be a quasi literal trojan horse, the kremlin says there's nothing to see here. the it's so legitimate the convoy even got the blessing of an orthodox priest as you see here. yet the red cross says it doesn't have everything it needs to carry out this humanitarian mission. tweeting that "important details still need to be clarified" like the content and volume of the aid. and while moscow says the convoys being organized by the emergencies ministry, a nonmilitary agency dealing with humanitarian relief task, soldiers bragged on social networks that the trucks are military vehicles hastily repainted white. after initially saying it would deny access to the convoy, ukraine allowed the trucks to enter under red cross supervision. they seem to have very different perceptions of what a deal entails. an aide said, "this cargo will be reloaded on to other
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transport vehicles at the border by the red cross." the russian foreign minister said ukraine decided against reloading relief supplies from the convoy after its examination at the border. all of which means we're watching these trucks right now barrel toward the ukrainian border and toward what could be an ugly confrontation in the midst of a very active war zone. we will see what happens as those trucks reach the border in the next few hours. stay tuned. introducing nexium 24hr finally, the purple pill, the #1 prescribed acid blocking brand,
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get in there! go, go, go, go, yes! let's go, drew. the "not-so-good more" would be them always watching you. go for it, paul! get open! come on, paul! let's go! hustle! what is that, chamomile tea?! uh, lattes. you wanna take a nap?! get the "good more" with nfl mobile, free with the more everything plan. exclusively from verizon. now get 50% off all new smartphones. there is now an ongoing police investigation into the death of this young man. named kevin ward jr. 20-year-old. who died on saturday night at a racetrack in upstate new york. the man whose car struck and killed him on that racetrack happens to be one of the biggest most famous names in all of nascar, three time champion driver tony stewart. stewart's car appeared to make contact with ward's car causing ward's car to spin out as you see there.
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ward then got out of his car, walked down the track, apparently yelling and pointing at stewart's car, at which point he was hit by the right side of stewart's car. the sheriff investigating the accident says footage like this video uploaded to youtube is crucial to the investigation. >> oh, he hit him. tony stewart just hit that guy, alan. tony stewart just hit that guy. holy [ bleep ]. >> ward was pronounced dead at the hospital with the official cause of death being blunt-force trauma. if you're like me, the first thing you might have asked watching yourself watching this video is, why in the world did he even get out of the car? but it's not an uncommon thing. as "the new york times" points out, "like many other drivers over the years, both of the top-level racing and dirt tracks like the one saturday that was the site of the fatal confrontation, stewart has gotten out of his crashed race cars and wagged his fingers at other drivers." at a 2012 race in tennessee
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after tony stewart and another driver, matt kenseth collided, wrecking stewart's car, stewart got out of his car, walked out on the track and threw his helmet at kenseth's car. there's no decision yet if he'll compete in this weekend's nascar race in michigan. investigation is continuing, but sheriff says there is no evidence of criminal intent on the part of tony stewart and no charges have been filed. joining me, mike paska, host of the gist" which i highly recommend and an npr contributor." the video, we did not show the worst part of that video because it is horrible. it is shocking to watch that video. and one of the most shocking things is that what happened right afterwards is the stewart people put out this preposterously anodyne statement that didn't even name the guy and said he was going to race the next day at a nascar event. >> yeah. so i'll look at that maybe as kindly as i can and say they didn't know how to react.
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this is unprecedented, though deaths on racetracks happen, the phrase they used it business as usual. that's terrible. i think what's happened here, so many people watching the video have rushed to accuse stewart of murder. >> yes. we should be clear that's not a legal accusation. there's an ongoing police investigation. there is no evidence they say of criminal intent. the people who watch that video on social media, other people are basically saying we're watching a guy run over a dude. >> i have to say, i think we do a great harm to tony stewart when we do this. there's no evidence of any intention. the race cars have giant wings. it's extremely limited. it's not like a nascar. not a hugely lit nascar track. he's wearing dark clothes. >> that is footage of what it looks like. >> i've talked to people who have driven these cars. there are huge blind spots, somewhere near the right rear tire.
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they're not designed to turn right. they're designed to turn left. there are so many factors that would indicate tony stewart did not see them. the biggest factor, since we can't at all prove tony stewart in any way had any intentionality, i think it is a calamity against him to say that tony stewart is something of a murderer. but, you know -- >> part of it, we should explain, the guy has this notorious reputation. >> right. >> as a hot head. as a brawler. as a trash talker. >> right. >> you know what i mean? it's not like that is why people are saying that. >> right. it's also because the way we react to video as sports fans, we're conditioned to go over video, forensic videography. did he gain a yard, first down? should he have punted or gone for it? not we, the public debates. i want to say about stewart being a hot head. there are hot heads in sports. there are some things you don't
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do. though there are hot heads in baseball, pitchers will throw at a guy, only one time a guy swung a bat at an opponent. you don't do it. in hockey, you don't slice someone with a skate. you never hit someone with a car. >> part of the reason people have been sort of aghast is you can hear the engine revving at the moment right before, and there's lots of explanations why that -- >> well, we seem to think that. we also know that video can be extremely misleading. i think there was a statement by a friend of ward who pretty much accused stewart of doing something wrong. a guy named tyler graves. he was in grief, and i understand his statement. a lot of the statement about saying tony stewart could see ward -- that has -- >> this is one of the strangest parts of the context of this. this is like michael jordan breaking someone's nose while playing a pickup game. >> oh, yeah. >> at, like, a local park while he is still playing for the championship bulls. >> yeah. >> i mean, the whole reason -- the whole fact of tony stewart racing on this dirt track is mind-boggling in and of itself. >> it's sort of like michael jordan and the owner of the bulls. he's this huge businessman with so much money riding on his racing team.
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people love tony stewart, there's maybe a $3,000 prize there. >> he loves to race so much. in a dirt track race. >> that's why fans love him and the temper and shaking of his finger. nascar, they fined him in bristol where he threw the helmet. they kind of love it. >> that's like the nfl showing the hits of corners coming across the middle of the field. mike pesca from "the gist." thank you. >> you're welcome. what are suburban police departments doing with things like this? that's ahead. skin looking tired? research shows that as you age skin cells loose energy. making skin look tired. wake it up! with olay regenerist. formulated with a skin energizing complex, it penetrates 10 layers of the skins surface. revving up surface cell regeneration and bringing out younger looking skin. because energized skin is younger looking skin.
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this image is one we showed you earlier. it flooded through social media today. different angles of it. taken yesterday amid the growing outrage of the shooting death of michael brown in ferguson, missouri. images of police in riot gear walking toward a man with his hands raised pointing his weapons at him from a few feet away. part of the reason we're seeing such widespread and reverberating outrage over the death of michael brown outside st. louis is it comes right on the heels of other images like this one of eric garner whose death was ruled a homicide by a medical examiner after he was put in a choke hold by a new york city police officer in july. or this one of a 51-year-old african-american woman on the
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ground being punched by a california highway patrol officer, also in july. here's the thing. it's not just those images that have led to so much outrage and anguish and condemnations of the state of american justice. it is those images juxtaposed against some other big stories this year such as these pictures of the open carry movement that showed gun owners strolling the aisles of a target store carrying long guns and assault rifles, a woman standing with her gun at an intersection reading a flag that says "come and take it." this from the bundy ranch in april of a man in sniper position aiming his rifle at federal officers from the bureau of land management. try to imagine if any of these people were african-american. try to imagine what would have happened at the bundy ranch if they used the tactics of ferguson, missouri, last night. 1967, images of black panthers with guns walking into the courthouse to protest a gun control measure contributed to the modern gun control movement. ronald reagan saying at the time "there's no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons."
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2002, august wilson articulated the racial double standard that continues to dominate the country. "there's a difference between white and black in america. a black man unarmed standing in a vestibule of his house is shot 41 times. a white man waving a rifle on the lawn of the white house, 150 yards from the leader of the free world, negotiate with him for ten minutes and shoot him one time in the leg. that's the difference of being white and black in america." joining me, marq claxton and phillip agnew. marq, i'd like to start with you. i remember growing up in new york in the 1980s and '90s and there was a series of incidents of police brutality, culminating with the rodney king incident and the riots after that. have things gotten better in the 30 years, or i guess 20 years since rodney king? have things gotten better in terms of police are trained, about how they interact, about what they do, about whether they're held accountable? >> no, actually there's been a
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significant shift in many police models across the nation. and that is as far away as possible toward community policing and more toward this more militarized show of force, use of force type policing. it's been increasingly about producing numbers, arrest numbers and showing force in communities as opposed to relating to communities, and defusing situations prior to them happening. >> you think the trajectory is actually getting worse? >> oh, absolutely. there's no question about it. you show the image, for example, of police officers in full military regalia at civil disturbance. a lot of time, that type of show of force exacerbates situations, and it really damages the relationship that should exist, the good relationship between police departments and the community at large.
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they are the client, they should always be considered the client and not some entity that needs to be forced upon. >> phillip, you've been doing a lot of organizing around this issue and obviously it's something that's been acutely problematic in florida, in certain areas of florida, but around the country, i mean, how much do you see this as a trend, how much to you see this as an enduring reality that's been like this for a long time? >> it's been like this for a very long time. it's been like this for a very -- you know, chris, ever since you're born, your taught at this posture right here should guarantee you life and liberty in your interaction with the police officer. this should indicate to a police officer that you mean him or her no harm. that you have no malice in your heart and subjecting yourself to the will of that police officer. this is the position that for years in this country was the last position that people that look like me, and people that
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look like people around this country, died in. and so this is an enduring trend in this country. this should mean -- this is the white flag. i'm surrendering to you, and it's only so long -- what you're seeing in ferguson, it's only so long that people can look in their timeline and see kids dying and not react in a way that's human and that's real and that's genuine. i can't -- you can't stroll past a picture of a young man in the middle of a street on his stomach with his brains blown out and react in any other way than people are reacting right now. this should mean, i want to live. and this is an enduring trend. he said it before, this is a consequence of heavy militarized police forces that have been infused with money from the federal government to terrorize communities. >> marq, when we have these discussions about police/community relations, particularly along race, there is a sort of historic nature of distrust between law
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enforcement, african-americans distrusting law enforcement, people of color distrusting law enforcement, particularly in urban environments. i wonder how you watch this unfold as a black man and as a former police officer and how you think about those two identities of yourself. >> that's an excellent question. let me just say, first and foremost, i think that in large part, we've had incidental distrust of police. you know, because as i grew up, the way that i grew up, many of my friends and family members, et cetera, did not have this innate distrust or dislike of police officers. it is the interactions that we've had historically. it is the interactions we've had on a personal level that impact how we look at policing in general. it's the same -- sadly, it's the same type of mentality that occurs in communities. you can only go based on your own personal experiences. the struggle and challenge and mr. agnew's emotion is clear here. that's why it's so important for us to deal, one, respectfully,
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honestly, with the racial component and dynamic that exists throughout the nation in law enforcement, et cetera, but also be honest about where policing is going. how far away it's going from, you know, to serve and protect, and more toward in terms of enforcement. >> i would like to see more police officers sitting down with phillip agnew and marq claxton. >> absolutely. >> and figuring out what modeling of policing that don't look like what you're seeing in ferguson right now looked like. >> right. right. >> no, and chris, you know, i would love to see more police officers in communities who are sitting with people, but they're not incentivized on that model. >> right. >> they're not being held accountable when things go wrong and why the nation's eyes right now are on -- >> absolutely. >> phillip agnew, marq claxton, thank you gentlemen both. i'll talk to someone who literally wrote the book on the militarization of america's police forces, next.
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and making something stronger... will mean making it lighter. one day, factories will work with the cloud. one day... is today. one of the most striking things an this image from ferguson, missouri, police are wearing camouflage. when you think about it, it seems odd considering they're not in a jungle, not in a war zone. what exactly are they trying to camouflage into? an example of militarization of police, military-style equipment, such as this mrap vehicle used in a raid at a house in idaho yesterday, mrap, mine resistant and ambush protected. presumably there were no mines planted in idaho. i'm joined by someone who's done
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the most thorough reporting on this issue, radley balko, author of "rise of warrior cop." radley, as you watch this unfold in ferguson, what are you thinking? >> i think this is a predictable consequence of a 30-year trend toward police militarization. the militarization, itself, is part of a larger trend that i think one of your earlier guests touched on and that is a willingness or a policy among domestic police in the united states of using more force more often for increasingly, you know, petty offenses. and really a mentality that's taken hold i think in too many police agencies that's very much kind of us versus them, it's a mentality that sees the people they're supposed to be serving not as citizens with rights but as potential threats. if you look at the racial makeup of ferguson, missouri, it's about 67% black. 52 of the 55 police officers at the ferguson police department are white. so, you know, it's important that communities see their
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reflection in their police force so that they see cops as one of their own who are using force to protect them and not an outside force being imposed upon them. it's important that police see their own reflection in the communities for very similar reasons, and that just wasn't happening in ferguson. it's not happening in a lot of the rest of the country. >> there's something symbolically really problematic about the military gear just at the basic level of kind of our constitutional expectations of what it means to be part of a republic in which we are not an occupied populous in which law enforcement is there as public servants and not a force to subdue the people around them. >> right. it's also part of what kind of country do we want to be? i mean, when you talk about the mraps, the people who defend the use of mraps, the people who defend them say, what's wrong with it? it's a big bulletproof truck. there are no guns attached to it.
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it's about image, the mentality it instills in the people, officers who are using it. i several years ago interviewed a citizen in new hampshire fighting the purchase of an armored personnel carrier in the town and said it's not about whether or not it has guns, it's about whether i want to look out the window in my town and see a military vehicle parked at city hall. she said, that's not the kind of town i want to live in. we need to look at images coming across social media and ask ourself, is this the kind of country we want to live in? >> there's two questions about whether it's useful or appropriate or makes issue better or it's needed. you make the argument in your book really well this has been driven by money from the federal government, much less demand and need for this specific kinds of heavy, heavy machinery.
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radley balko. that is "all in" for this evening. "the rachel maddow snow" starts now. good evening. impressive observation on the camouflage detail. i looked at the picture, myself, did not pick it up. the green doesn't make sense. well done. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. okay. he had more than 20 years on the force with not a mark against him. before last year, a sergeant with the st. louis county police had only ever been written up for a disciplinary infraction once in his entire career and that's because he has once forgotten his badge. when he showed up for work, he misplaced his badge, he got in trouble for that. that had been the only time he'd been written up or had any mark against him. more than 20 years on the force. then last year in quick secession, that same sergeant got reprimanded and dingnd


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